George Kidd was the first one that I saw use this. Generally a submission, because it was awkward to unravel. Always announced as a reverse surfboard.

I received one of these typewritten issues in the 50',s. I can't remember why, but it was mostly about Norman Walsh and his titles. I showed it to Norman and Flo and they said some of it was true and some not. Can't remember the details now.

Almost a limerick, too many words to get in. I remember a strongman, Hassan Ali Bey He was billed to fight The Ghoul that day A chop, a smile, a shake of the head Neck stuck out -big target instead Stiff fingers to stomach, down he lay Ghoul indicated, you won't win that way.

Now Hack,I read your urgent request and this brought a response of interest More people to send items in now about their memories and how they enjoyed wrestling at it's best. I saw that wrestler, Jack Pye in the ring feathers would fly Abdul the Turk's mat went flying He was upset ,really trying but Jack's ability was too high.

I knew about Lou Thesz from wrestling magazines too, Ray.

Thank you MM. At my age you just have to keep plodding on. Lots of slight niggles.

Hi Ruslan. I know that you won't like this answer, but I don't think that there was a previous holder of the Mount-Evans heavyweight title before Ernie Baldwin. He was the first. Also the choice of Newcastle and Middlesbrough for Title fights is not so mystifying when you know the halls that Morrell used. In the North East. By the way I appreciate that some of your views have changed from always being belts, results and titles to thinking what was behind professional wrestling . Good on you !

Thanks MM. It was surprising to me that Norman had so many goes with Thesz. I knew that he had a couple but four! Must have been what they call "A safe pair of hands" At the time, one of Morrell's top men.

Hi All. Walsh v Marino were generally good technical fights. Because of my interest in Norman, I always thought he was the better wrestler because he was more aggressive than Marino. I never thought that he would lose to Marino, but of course I now know that this was at Newcastle and there would be stadiums where Marino would hold sway. To answer one query. I think that these two drew good crowds because they were the two top wrestlers in that weight category at the time. Of similar ability and also there was often a title defence thrown in.

Thanks Ron. Very Intriguing. 4 Visits by Norman and 5 by Mike Marino in a short space of time. It would have been easier for Norman to get there, but a longer trek for mike if he was coming from London. They would have been old friends by the time that they finished. By the way Ron I did see them meet at Newcastle a couple of times . Both excellent wrestlers then.

Sorry Ruslan ,it was on the Assirati v Baldwin thread. But you didn't answer.

Hi Ruslan, Unfortunately my last message seems to have disappeared from the site. Perhaps it was on another thread. I said that I could not remember Bert being named on this site as Mount-Evans heavyweight champion as you claimed. Please could you tell me where on this site it appeared?

Hi Peter. Never believe anything on a wrestling poster.

Hi Anglo. You said "We have to deduce that Harry Fields was a DM wrestler" . I saw him at Newcastle in the 1950's wrestling as The Farmer's boy under Morrell. He must have done well as a DM wrestler to hold a Lord Mount-Evans title for a short while. I guess that he must have moved south if you are right.

I don't remember anyone saying that Bert was Lord Mount-Evans heavyweight champion on this site. Please tell me where it says that..

Thanks Ost. I enjoyed reading that. Even though I know little about the beginnings of DM. Isn't it nice to have a topic in the correct time periods for this site, rather than arguing about geographical areas in 1820 ?

Hi Sax. As an offshoot, I need an opinion. Do you think that Mike Marino would have been allowed to take the mid heavy weight title if Norman Walsh hadn't had his car crash? I think it unlikely at that time that Morrell would have allowed it to happen. Especially as some people say that Morrell created the weight category for his wrestler.

Hi Ruslan. I don't know the answer to your query about Bavarians and Austrians, but I would think that possibly different roots would come into it. They would obviously have different traits. My point was that no Yorkshireman that I've ever met would consider himself from the North West. As for Morrell employing mainly wrestlers from the North West, try telling that to the boys from Middlesbrough, Stockton or Newcastle.

Thank you Peter. Sorry Ruslan to press this point . In the 1950's especially, in the north, Norman Morrell was the top dog. He did the matchmaking, said where and when, and he lived in the Bradford/Leeds area. Not ever considered the North West. This subject started off on a 1950's article, not 1820's.

Hi Ruslan, just re-reading this topic. I didn't count the number of times that you said "North West", but I'm not sure how well you know England's geography or where the wrestlers came from. In the 1950's Baldwin came possibly from NW but trained for Morrell in Bradford /Leeds, this roughly the middle of England. Dave Armstrong and Norman Walsh both from North East. Even Norman Morrell, who ran the shows put two eliminators on in Middlesbrough and Newcastle - North East. Add all this together and tell me ,In the 50's, Why all North West.? Later on ,yes I agree North West, but we are not talking here about later on.