Dales in particular had strict code of behaviour including swearing and other joint members followed.i knew of one lad who received a warning about bookings after questioning the parentage of a referee. Leon arras often used the word bugger but was never questioned.on how the reg Maxwell hall reacted to Johnny Czelaws Swhine . Interestingly racist remarks went down badly in the dressing room perhaps we weren't all neanderthals,however homophobic jibes were almost the norm. The award for swear words per sentence outside and whispered inside the ring goes to Dales referee .............. Any ideas

The grovitt did exist ,jack Fallon applied it with ease and demonstrated it as a reminder or finisher.kent Walton widely stated that he was first to name a hold the Japanese strangle hold,this dated back many years and was reversed Lancashire cravat, terminology is as vague as titles . I admire Ruslans determined research but only thing set in stone is ephitets,1920s for money matches in south east lancs were very much submission based,how do I know this I have had the privilege to have spoken to three guys who did it,this being in 1970s and they told me the nearest they'd seen to their game was billy Joyce ,the same billy Joyce beaten by Shirley Crabtree, the magic circle had nowt on this game

Stateing

Ruslan surely you are not starting billy Robinson was not a submission wrestler,I guess I misunderstood your comment

That's the one Ron I was sub and I remember it so well because of this plus I wasn't happy with a certain indivual

Did Les meet Terry after 1970,interesting Anglo mentions Les and Mick bring close,it was close enough for Les to kick off with Mick about opponents and get dates adjusted. By the way I'm not convinced about how Mick got the booking biro iv heard three different versions. Mick was very much you earn it by graft perhaps I'm that's my naivete. Also the blame on Marino on matchmaking wasn't EE off his making the pool had shrunk he worked with what he had. Right off to check the duvet for the horses head, The interest research and respect shown on here mirrors the early 70s by the the regulars so heart felt thanks

Apologies I mentioned the band stand the gates the clock not the venue belle Vue of course,hope Ron can work his magic,he did on my ancestry and I had very vague info and that stories ongoing

Yeah the fox not the illustrator Ost.Anglo it's something I recalled recently,Mick had a series of books but where did the info come from well mainly refs three in particular they related heat,professional standards and compliance.Martin Conroy did his personally but Jack Atherton could relay the same info as could Stan Rylands.back to Dales Charlie was purely maths,others like f p Blake nothing.Bob verlander was trusted to be impartial for norman ,Ernie sometimes a bit biased.

Public Hall was a known lively hall,known for jumpers

Yeah of course Hack, iv got lots of contradictory info on date books like dates in Barrow for Wryton and also morrells in Morecambe at the winter gardens. Eric the bad boy milkman triggers the farm connection even Lawrence Arthur Wright was of Cheshire farming stock ,hence the gym in sandbach

Was Eric said milkman sorry couldn't resist.im puzzled now unless I made a mistake more than likely but in a date book iv got Barrow as a Wryton in 1973

Slightly earlier I think it was Lofthouse asked me what was going on at Wryton,the rumour was round morrells halls not so much Wryton I said dunno what you mean and ended the conversation. Definitely involving Wryton not normans,Morrells were paranoid about Dales not an easy relationship.when Mick got me working for dales it was viewed with suspicion when Ronnie Pennington made his I'll fated move south it wasn't appreciated. Iv another bit of info but I need to confirm with the lad who mentioned it recently

Of course as a strictly neutral,yeah right, I'm enjoying this it becomes muddier by the minute well did Dale Martin Metro come under the spotlight.Dales promoted in Stockport,WIGAN and Buxton plus Warrington sporadically and yes because of previous promoters ceasing. Heavy Rumours around the dressing rooms of Dales and Wryton agreement not a takeover

Peter comments are so right, the terms heel and face would never be used ,Les Kellet was reprimanded by joint for using the phrase blue eye in an article in Yorkshire and that was 1972. In the 60s and 70s most workers considered them selves sports men this especially in the lancs and Yorks areas.Bert Royals number in the phone book was listed as Herbert Faulkner professional athlete,we all had pride in our work.

Totally agree why would you continue to employ him let alone trust him perhaps evidence wasn't conclusive ,but the later bout motive was supposedly about photography rights

The referee is key

Hi Hack Sorry if I was unclear the didn't happen comment was made by a well respected worker who hadn't made his debut when it took place,I believe he meant it didn't happen that way. I was told by a veteran who held a title when it happened it was a double double cross,norman got wind of an expose that would centre on the result of the match then be in Sunday papers,so the whole thing wasn't to double cross Mick and dales for the result,it was to prevent the game being shown as worked ,dales were angry but on explanation if bout went as scheduled the most famous worker would be exposed.Now look who was in a position to spill the beans. It was postponed not cancelled albeit not with the big name.

Talking to a former worker who hadn't begun his career at the time but later made it big ,he believes it didn't happen,I was told by a veteran that what really happened was a double double cross to kill a tell all story agreed with a major newspaper

Saxon ,Peter was very much capable,excellent trainer. Recall a bout at drill hall silver well st Bolton,cracking bout clash of heads plenty of blood we got more reaction than top of the bill.Peter was the ultimate professional sadly that approach was misused in having him in ludicrous gimmick matches that would have been in the norm in the dying days of all in. I prefer to remember the Peter who's skill was enhanced by his showmanship

Sad news very welcoming when working over the channel,very intelligent got on well with Mick