Good old Les in his pomp can be seen at either pembertons carnival martin conroy home town or possibly pitmans event at Haigh Hall Wigan. its on youtube as childhood memories of Scholes Wigan

It is with sadness we hear of the passing of Jim, one of the true greats and innovators,sleep easy Jim R I P

did he REALLY, None of the Dales claimed this,but Norman did it kinda makes sense ,thoughts please,Norman claimed he made old Jackie a superstar and Dales were totally against it. might explain the fiasco over Pallos this is year life Walton was unhappy at rescheduling.Norman believed the de monfort and lime grove boosted Jackie

any memories he caused raised eyebrows amongst workers when included in the who's who.Owned the venue in Rochester. Body builder with limited flexibility but was pushed briefly by DM had a couple of matches with him but can't recall much

Mike never seems to get a mention,probably much under rated,great to work with had his dad's and uncle Ted's work ethic.Great under the bonnet too,JACK Atherton used him a lot so that says a lot plus he was Jack's star masked man for a time .Any memories?

Looking through various stuff whilst working on my little project ,I came across the unbelievable fact that Mal Kirk held the Welsh heavy title for a short period.Got to be a misprint on this yellowing article or an uninformed writer getting wrong ,however when I recall the writer it becomes curiouser.it was one Charles Mascall. I wondered why I'd kept this piece no mention of Salford fair city,but an article detailing McManus win over Jack Dempsey at the R A H ,then in a few brief lines mucky Mal becomes a Welsh man .

so sad to learn of Spencer's passing at 93 years. Spencer was a lovely bloke to chat to and a consummate professional.A Dales stalwart .

it's with great sadness we learn of the loss of a true gentleman of the ring,an innovator along with Vic and a mentor who always supported us newcomers I'll never forget Bert for his professionalism and his friendship.truely an end of an ERA.

hopefully wont bore you al with this whilst investigating Wrytons origins I came across a strategy by two of Joints members that were I'm sure rare in the 1960s, that is self suffiency.Dale had a in house printing operation and an external company ,they had a pr dept for internal and external work,transport company,cafes and b and bs no wonder Jack Dempsey said Dales were the innovators in control and operations.Meanwhile Norman Morrel had a b and b a cafe and an Bradford printers all this activity whilst managing the logistics and massaging workers egos to produce results.So what about Wryton hopefully I'll soon complete my research and give details however I'm sure it' was the only wrestling promoters connected to prize winning Cheshire

I'm sure most of the stalwart fans on here could spot the guys who wrestled stiff,but I'm interested to know was it noticeable then or now with the benefit of YouTube to identify who had the rigid style who had the floppy style.I was told by several old pros that if I wanted to avoid back trouble to adopt the floppy style,basically this was a very relaxed motion during throws this was to protect during bumps. The great divide is difficult to explain as it wasn't a North south thing like so much of the pro game was.To illustrate this and hopefully get views on this I'll highlight a few styles Bert Royal floppy,Jim Breaks floppy,Ivan Pencecoff floppy,Vic Faulkner trained by same people as Bert surprisingly rigid, Steve Logan Rigid,old Pallo floppy.

Whilst digging into the Wryton dynasty a local historian said I should document it,I replied limited appeal .I recall saying same thing to jack Atherton in the 70s after he was approached by a guy off the Lancashire Evening Post,coindently same guy from Blackburn did an in depth piece about les Keller,in this Les went into detail about showmanship in the game but the need for integrity. What a book that would make so many unanswered questions about Les ,the Edinburgh connection,the Salford connection,learning French. Nick McManus was approached to do his biography by an Evening Standard hack,it didn't happen because Mick wanted to protect the game,the same reasoning behind the seemingly awkward treatment of Old Jackie's this is your life ,wrongly believed to be jealousy by Mick and Dales wanting to prove no worker was bigger than the game.Had to be shown it was sport not showbiz.I look forward to reading about Gordienko but imust say not a fan of previous books about the

I hope these observations don't come over as the bitter ramblings of an old sweat,but this weekend die to family being around I watched some wrestling from the U S A and I found it repetive, boring and chorgraphed to an inch of its believability.Spotsbwere telegraphed so the crowd whooped in anticipation.However production values were excellent and the performers were skilled acrobats to the point where reactions were shown prior to completion of strike. This reminded me to remove the rose tinted spectacles when joint first came to prominence the criticism it was almost ballectic in follow through link wrestling especially in the lighter weights ,however this was soon viewed as skillfull and when compared to the fag end of joint when operating out of Leeds as a generic Dale Martin it was sublime,so perhaps I'm being unfair to the stateside product, when we televised clueless guys suffering obesity and wearing passed on dralon leotards and who wouldn't know a double wrist lock from a chub lock There are guys here in the UK wrestling skillfully where we suffer is trying emulate the razzamatazz of big arena wrestling with long rambling intros and Crossroads storylines on a Poundland budget.And breathe ....feel better for that hope not too incendiary for s bankoliday.

In the Eric Wilson thread question posed about arrangements.Nearly always done by letter sometimes protracted .Arthur Green did a fair bit of travel to book talent and attended co promoters meetings with other alliance reps.Martin Conroy had good connections with the Spanish promoters and arranged for me to wrestle over there funnily enough at the same time Arthur had sent some lads over and Dales also indepently so the likes of me Nagasaki and old Jackie were over at the same time.French and Belgian work came usually through Dales,the two Yorkshire promoters had close links with the German tourney promoters.Relations with the French was a bit cool until Lincoln sold out.Ted Berisford was highly regarded by the South American guys.When the old guard retired the links died with them wages were poorer by then one Columbian laughedt what was offered and wouldn't deal with anyone when Morrel went.

I wonder if any of the members spotted in ring instructions,usually delivered when having a ground breather or in clinch holds.It was far from universal and spots would not be easy to see from the seats.These stage whispers came from workers but occasionally from some refs.Lou Marco did it virtually continuously ok if big loud crowds not so good in quiet prelims,Lew Roseby did it to help novices and was discreet.One of the chattiest workers was Pallo who sulked a bit if you weren't listening,McManus hated the practice as did Dempsey and Marino.A certain Yorkshireman barked out suggestions throughout a seaside bout,I completely ignored all of them,he had delusions of grandeur and I'd never heard off him before that night,but the niggle caused the bout to be a cracker for the crowd.

A true breath of fresh air at a time of decline had it all presence skill charisma knowledge,Dennis Mitchell donned the mask and should have topped bills nationwide a true gentleman outside the ring,I seem to recall he found the mask a problem because of an eye problem,shame the Kilmeister didn't grace rings for longer,I'd heard from workers Dennis was the real deal I then saw the

Southport 1972 happy holiday crowd good bill at ringside a suited man in mask a well cut expensive suit I may add two empty seats either side .finished bout return to dressing room gotblank stares this was no promotional gee up Martin had no idea who it was,our boy in the bonnet leaves before last bout,same thing happen at the Tower circus following Sunday although ted Betley was in attendance no connection there,anyone have any idea he was bout 6 ft3 and good 18st.

I was told by Les that his comic antics evolved from a bout with Seamus Donleavy where Les a high impact move and sent Seamus sprawling and I believe this explanation was touted both verbally and in print. However Les also asked me at a later date who I thought had the best timing in the game I gave my answer and he sighed and said he'd watched Laurel and Hardy live over here in the fifties and said watch them there's masters.At the time I thought it odd now I wonder were they his inspiration.

Count Bartelli was someone I could listen to for hours,the Count wasa FAN if the game he lived it and loved it ,IV stood at the back of many a hall watching bouts with Geoff he admire guide and advise if required by any new to the ranks worker.Some discussion of late has been how the comandment Thou shall protect the game was interpreted by individual wrestlers,Geoff's view was respect the fans they're you're paymasters.Now this love of the game was a two edged sword I think Geoff went on too long for his health,but the lure of the lights and roar of a crowd was a powerful addiction.I personally always felt sad when I saw someone go on too long and this was the case with Geoff his playing to the gallery before landing the chop was devalued as he got older because the lightning speed of announcement of move and delivery were lengthened making the whole thing look wrong,timing is all in Pro wrestling like comedy but old comedians don't lose it workers do and it becomes pantomime like parody.I would have never questioned Geoff why he carried on because I knew,but wished he retired whilst still top dog.He suffered the indignity of being told to lose to lesser men sometimes by straight falls Ibwitnessed several instances where I felt embarrassed where he virtually pleased for different outcome but always respected the profession.There was no edge to Geoff hence the title of the post,but there was always total commitment if a real nice guy,he endured seeing changes that he vehemently felt detrimental but just got on with it,how I wished I'd asked more questions.

In my quest for the origins and major players of Wryton Promotions,Ted Betley appears in various guises,notably producing lads like Steve Wright Tommy Billington etc all having a fast moving acrobatic style.Like Billy Howes Ted trained at a later date on the Isle of Man responsible for the lad who max christened Young Faulkner but went onto to become John Savage.What has surprised me was that Ted had a hand in promoting in South Lancs and it was indeed Ted not Beech that as Dr Death causes questions to be asked by Atherton udc at the near riot at the Formby halls,only the kinks had managed this not even the Beatles.It seems that a formal exclusive deal was done with Wryton to have first option of young talent.

Whilst doing a bit of digging about Wrytons origins I have come across what I feel must be the most obscure titles and belts,it's so bizzare I had to share.Now my memory of an old silver belt with red roses bordering the centre which lay in the old office at Wryton Stadium had Ruslan champing at the bit and I couldn't give any further info.Well after discussions with Old timers even older than me,the subject of belts presented to Burke of Tyldesley,woods of Farnworth and a Grogan of Walkden these belts were for Lancashire area championships ,silver belts provided and manufactured by Berry a Bolton jeweller.Now Westhoughton is famous for Houghton weavers a Russian wrestler and a luddite event,but these belts it seems were presented well before Ronnie Pennington became Ivan.Itvseems this small town had ambitions to build and fund a cottage hospital and a local promoter,more on the Wryton origins later put on matches which drew large crowds to raise funds and became a regular event and the Westhoughton nursing and cottage hospital association presented belts. The cottage hospital was never built the association became defunct in theb1950s but according to my source the belts were silver and had red roses at the side of the centerpiece,it sounds like the one gathering dust at higher bridge Street all those years ago was one the wna belts.Ruslan I wished I'd looked closer in hindsight.Hope this hasn't bored you all to death but it was such a strange one felt it needed sharing.