Told the story before Anglo I bumped into Logan on a sea front fairground in 1989/90 at Morecambe. Looked sad. His wife had died there in 1987 and Steve Logan died there in2003. I just don't know about his career movements.

No trace of Preston v McManus ever again as far as I can see. As for Logan , I don't really know what year he came to live up north , but that would have changed his exact status with Dales. Logan would always get plenty of work whatever he did.

In Ray's index there is nothing for 13th anywhere near , which does not mean that there was no Relwyskow show , just saying. It was 55 miles just to get to Kendal and on the way north again or across to Yorkshire. It does not look like the family were interested in Workington or Whitehaven or even Seascale. No Motorways , probably at least two hours to Carlisle. Maybe best part of 2 hours to get to the A6 for north or south. Truly in a tight spot on the north of Morecambe Bay. It would seem the main reasons must be the hometown of Mrs Elsie Relwyskow and a large enough town to get a profitable audience. And yes , there may have been some accomodation thrown in too. Nice little piece of history , it only took 65 year to unravel

Sherry worked for Oakeley. Oakeley may have pretended that there was an organisation but it was just Oakeley and a figment of his imagination. Below , there is no "Branding" as you want to call it. And Just plain old World Champion. He was simply Oakeleys World Champ. Of course Bankier argued the same as what I say and got sued for it by Sherry and Garnon as well. I think the courts were actually fooled too. It cost bankier a lot of money.

Maybe as suggested , kept to the Nook and Crannies. Nelson and Brierley Hill are other examples.

One for Hack , I can see a report that stated on 5th December 1957 Thesz was to wrestle Walsh at Blackburn next week. A quick check shows wrestling on Thursdays and I think this must equate to 12th Dec 1957. Yet another Walsh/Thesz match Also 16th Dec 1957 beat Dai Sullivan at Leeds....source Plunkett Index. Down for Bill Verna at Brighton on 22nd Dec. We have them on 14th at Brighton as well. If it was a return note different day of week. Is this reliable.!!!!

Thanks Anglo , it shows there is always something new to be found. Very different , I have something else to show you. Coming from the south of the county (Lancashire at that time) Barrow truly was a difficult Journey. What I see above makes me wonder about a stop off on the way back from Scotland. So we have 11th , 12th , 14 April 1960. Look at Foley and Mancelli. They are in Hamilton slightly south of Glasgow. The next day they are in Aberdeen , well over 100 miles. I conclude that they did not wrestle on the 13th because just to travel from Aberdeen to Barrow was about 320 miles and I bet they were too tired to do the Barrow show without the rest day. Typically some wrestlers went Barrow to Yorkshire next. Mask and Stockton did Hamilton to Aberdeen but did not do Barrow. Foley/Mancelli , an unexpected combo must have traveled together , I assume by car , but who knows , maybe trains.

I thought there was no British Wrestling Board of Control and that it was on the posters to make it look very official. Almost certainly different posters in different parts of the country could claim a champion at any one time , because they thought they could easily get away with that. All uncovered today in the digital age. You can spend a lifetime trying to make sense of it all. Nothing wrong with that , if you like a bit of fun.

Just had a look at the Barrow connection. George Relwyskow married Elsie Lawrie there in 1937. Yes Elsie was born there.(1918) Here father William Lawrie was also born Barrow and had worked in Engineering , but in 1921 he was an Invalid (age 40) That year he died. Elsie Lawrie's Mother had been Jane Banister and whilst her husband was an invalid , she had took on a boarding house in Church Street that could accommodate 10 guests. After his death in 1921 Jane remarried (1923) and became Bailey. I find her again in 1939 in charge of The Concle Inn. George Rel and Elsie (Lawrie) must have took over the pub at some point, it was in the family. It's situated at Rampside and there are plenty of pictures on the web. Lots of land there at the back and I suspect the Inn could have put up wrestlers or maybe the Relwyskow family had other properties there. The Concle was the staring point for Motor Rally's that George took part in. Without a doubt the connection with the town of Barrow brought the wrestling there. In a Nutshell Barrow was the home town of Elsie De Relwyskow. I also have found out that the council had recently approved a Caravan Site at the rear of The Concle Inn for workers who came in to Barrow and in 1961 they were reviewing it. However I think by this time the Relwyskows had already moved on.

Don't know about the 1970's , could have gone to Wryton. I don't think anyone has any Barrow posters , again could be wrong but I don't think Even Ray Plunkett had these Barrow bills. The last I have thus far is 1963 , here are some Bruno was here , White Angel , Wall v Two Rivers (wonder if Albert went over) Two more visits from Pallo.

Walsh/ Marino just comes across to me as a huge rivalry before it could be captured on tv. Yes of course there were others. I think what jumps out for me is it's always to do with the World Title. When you bring that into it , it is a massive selling point for the promoters. Indeed , I am asking Bernard , were they exciting , or was the World Title the best way that the Promoters could sell it. Just been looking at George Rel. he was married in Barrow in 1937 and certainly living there in 1950. he was a member of Furness Motor Club and drove his Triumph in Motor Trials , frequently making the papers. There is mention that he had a wrestling Field , who knows maybe at the pub. Relwyskow and Green was registered in Leeds where George owned a Coach business. He died there. Rel and Green applied for the Public Hall in Barrow for wrestling in the autumn of 1957 and quickly got approval. Now we know that Wrestling in this Nook and Crannie was a cert. I only wonder why it took so long to get it going. No doubt due to bigger shows Thursdays was chosen to do the shows. ironically that was the same day as at Morecambe. At this time Carlisle was Mondays fronted by William Little. Enjoy some from 1960/61

Clearly Marino/Walsh went on at a lot of Halls. So many have come to light now.. Were they rough fights Bernard . How did both men come over. Was it very aggressive or technical. Like McManus Pallo.......... Box Office. I forgot to mention that Wrestling started in September and sometimes went to the first week of June with a summer break. It was generally fortnightly and roughly 16 shows a year. Mcmanus and Pallo visited , Scots v the Rest nights were popular and many top visitors went there. Bill Robinson was often on and in the days when he was not yet full heavy. In my own experience it's a long way to get round that corner to Barrow. Used to give it a miss when I watched rugby because it was so time consuming. It may get judged as not as nice a place to draw people in as some of the great spots like Grange Over Sands and Cartmel. Still a long way after you exit the motorway at Milnthorpe. When I have been up that coast I gave it a miss. But I do know it's an important place , my brother-in-law worked there for a couple of years re roofing the submarine base. Click for a bigger image. Here is some from 1959.

We have all come a long way. One of the greatest detailed deceptions of all time . Fascinating colour and sometimes mystery and a bundle of trade tricks to enchant us. There is something for everyone. Well done to Ruslan for doing so much. It's nice to have a consuming passion. You have to have lived through the early 1960's to really shake yourself and appreciate what you saw. Wrestling in every town almost no matter how small.

Possibly an unknown show not in our records.

Born Borini in Parma , Italy , wrestled here as Ventura in 1949.

That's a fantastic detective story. Sounds a great wrestler too.

Click for bigger image. Some examples of Billy Riley as a "Booker" Observation number 1. Co-operation with other promoters to share wrestlers. Not realistic to just put a show on with Snake Pit only workers Observation number 2. The use of three terms. The Wrestling Board of Control. The Wrestling Board. Under the supervision of Billy Riley. The most realistic was simply under the supervision of Billy Riley.

Time has proved that it is not possible to work back a lineage record for the so called titles. No records were ever kept for the simple reason that a deception was at work and that deception was a bit flexible. A bit of short term swapping of titles could be seen as a small reward for some wrestlers from the promoters. We have already proved that guys were pictured with belts for the purpose of looking good. I would much rather have a light hearted chuckle at all this than such an intense desire to nail some sense out of it all. Nice to recapture the history , but I think the history will have to be a bit flexible too.

In terms of post war Oakeley as a Promoter , my own vast bill collection suggests that Oakeley was a very minor player indeed. Of course he invented his own champs. They were champions of very little and his shows very few, He did tend to try and go for flagship venues. If I am not wrong he was blown out of existence in a very short space of time. I don't think anyone has ever looked at this so deeply , maybe because there is nothing real to find.

A great debate , entertaining reading , have we got anywhere , I have my doubts.