thank you, yes I do think so too, very likely they owned those old belts. Actually it was not that difficult to make a belt your own property, you just had to purchase it from the pro wrestling company that owned it. My understanding is that Baldwin also owned the original heavyweight Mount Evans belt, after he lost his championship claims that belt disappears once and forever. Same for Busfield. And guess what, the same for Colbeck. But Alan later let Relws use his Mount Evans belt in their promotion under the different title name, it was no longer the Biritsh Championship trophy but rather it was symbolic of either or Worlds or Euro, I cannot remember exactly what it was, someone would know better than me, and is welcome to correct me here, I would truly appreciate that. Same for the most famous WRYTON belt, it became the property of the Hussey family. And you can see it on almost all of the Rollerball Rocco pics. For me personally the most precious belt of British Pro Wrestling of the 20c was the original LORD MOUNT EVANS British Heavyweight Championship belt won, held and retired by Ernie Baldwin.

That is right Hack, results (whether it is a victory or a defeat) do not speak for anything. The fact that the pro wrestling workers (artists) names were repeatedly appearing on pro wrestling afiches all around the country does, it tells us the factual truth - they definitely had fans, who were there to watch them do their ring-theatre job! The idea of approaching this realm of theatre as if it is the Olympics is kind of a ridiculous nonsense to me now. The only pro wrestling statistics I currently accept would be number shows a week, or a months, by a certain performer, or how far a certain wrestler travelled, this type of things. Definitely not the "results". It is like it does matter (for theatre history researchers) how many times a year SARAH BERNHARDT played CLEOPATRA or JOAN OF ARC in those plays every year of her career since she attended the international stardom. This question would make sense to me. Because it is self explanatory of her profession, her performing quality! This is the kind of "results" I accept, they would make sense to me. And yet, some results do matter. Like those we would call the "title changes". Why? Because titles belonged to the companies it was their property. And the title holders was never a random man, but the wrestler who established strong relationships with their employer so that they trusted him enough to represent company's name everywhere...on every poster, in every newspaper, in every village and in every town where they did their wrestling showcase, call it title is a money making race car, mileage is moneys, speed is shows quality and hence more money...you want to give that car to some capable race car pilot, not to someone who would ruin your business into ashes. Hence yes, I do think that it is important to have a certain clarity on who and when held company's championships. So that we could better judge the company, the business, just the overall processes that formed and accompanied this theatre wrestling. If that makes sense.

it actually had to be all chaos for it to function successfully. but for us those who research it, it sure cannot. we are trying to explore and explain WHAT WAS BEHIND THE CURTAINS in this theatre of British Pro Wrestling Stage.

makes perfect sense, I am right there with you on that. though we have to remember that all those "styles" in the 1800s were nothing but pro wrestling, i.e. predetermined finish exhibitions. The organizers, who advertised pro wrestling matches as a genuine sport, sorry to say that, fooled the betters (and regular fans too) and have been sucking their moneys regardless the "style".

thank you, my friends, appreciate your comments as always, and the pennies too, so far that is all I get, the handful of pennies, I hope one day I will start finally getting some silver... shillings, florins, half-crowns, who knows maybe even crowns at some point. anyways. they all, the patrons, were selling fans essentially the same product called professional wrestling. whether you call it styles (more suits the 1800s realities) or brands (my personal choice to call by that name the variations of the twentieth century British pro wrestling). the most important thing for me is that that they actually enjoyed the chaos, the championship muddle if you will in the pro wrestling department. One country one wrestling champ, was something that was not ever going to work in England, because no one of them ever wanted that.

FINALLY. WE ARE HAVING A CONVERSATION. FUN TO READ. MORE FUN TO THINK. To think about all these things, historical events if you will, and to try to make some sense of them. To me personally that is the only proper approach to wrestling history, or history in general. It just cannot be all chaos. Those were actions of powerful men greedy for a big buck...hence expect at least some logic behind their behavior. Lol. Enjoying this, very much.

celebrate it as if its 1967, I suppose.

I see a lot of "deadliest and most vicious submissions" on this video. Lol. our beloved so called wrestling historians should hang up their boots...and maybe hang up themselves too. hahahahaha.

I always thought it has originated from a slang, an expression "RIGHT ON", and yes it starts with W, simply because Mr. Wright was the boss and he was always RIGHT ON too, wasn't he, just like all the bosses are?!

precious.

wow. what a treasure. priceless.

sad news. rest in peace in champ. I treasured your facebook friendship.

in the early 1950s Dale Martin were running their own British titles not only regionals. Let's not forget the Arena Gold Belts, those were symbollic of the British Titles under DM before they decided to join JP. I know McManus held one such gold belt. I never seen a pic though. But it appeared in many newspapers, the info about it I mean. Did anyone see such belt pic of McManus it would be a photo from the early 50s, 1953-54 maybe?!

STILL NO BELTS?!

the year?

RIP. Great man. Had a chance to chat with him.

I think he also had a gold belt...just saying.

fantastic amateur background, undeafeated champion of Lancs County Am Wrestling Assn. the last true real champion wrestler of Lancashire.

TIME, TIME, TIME GOES BY SO FAST...STILL NO ANY SINGLE PHOTO OF THE MOST HISTORICAL BELT - THE ORIGINAL LORD MOUNT EVANS BELT FROM THE 50s.

brilliant, Padiham-Blackburn areas? Not Salford-Manchester...